Enough already

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(107)
Flowers at the site of the attack
Guardian.co.uk

The gruesome and sordid attack in Woolwich, UK has alarmed and horrified that nation and a fair amount of the world. An unprovoked beheading by cleaver of the 25 year old Afghanistan war vet has stunned London and in the wake of the killing, reprisals have been carried out against Muslims in the UK as well. There have been heroes in this story as well, but it is impossible to imagine that anything would balance off this lunatic brutality. 

As has become almost rote in the wake of these events, both sides in this battle are already fully engaged. I don't mean the British military and local terrorists. I mean the dildos and dildettes of the Net, who regard every news story no matter what it is as vindication or repudiation of their cause.

When it became clear that the attackers were Muslims, you could almost hear the Pamela Geller's and Steven Emerson's of the world climaxing in sexual ecstasy over the intertubes. Their "opposition", the people that trot out Tim McVeigh as the "white Christian terrorist" by way of "everyone does it" when these attacks occur were silent--they'd lost this one. Better luck next time, I suppose.

Which isn't quite as sickening as the violence itself, but shit: What is wrong with these people? A dad had his head lopped off and for all the expressed sorrow by Islamophobes, they were actually pretty jazzed. Whether they admit it or not, what's one dead dude you never met compared to the thrill of rubbing it in some "dumb lib's" face? You were right and what's better than that? Nothing!

It's just as bad when it's some white supremacist asshole and the "I told you so" palaver comes from the left. 

Thing is, the idea that "my team won, yay!" over this story and other negates the painfully obvious. This is a complex issue. It doesn't boil down to "see, I told you the Islamofascists were crazy/No, they aren't". Imperialism, propping up bogus sheikdoms, coups, invasions, nationalism--a melange of those plus the asymetricality of terrorism is complicated. Nobody wants to delve too deeply into the actual cause. They just wanna be the "right person at the water cooler this morning". To which I say enough already. Really. 

 

 

Comments

are Moslem. Sure there are the white supremicists but, even so, black criminals in the US commit far, far more violence than the white fascists and so I wouldn't try and go too far with that rhetoric.

Israel continues to be very successful at suppressing terror at home and they are in a far, far worse situation than us. And they practice racial profiling. you may not like it, but it works. I flew El Al a while back and we were essentially screened by race at security.

Ask me if I care. I don't. It's not Norwehgian grandmothers that are doing this shit - it is young black and arab males, So let's just acknowledge that.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:10 pm

Yippee! As long as we have black criminals to point our fingers at, we can just ignore the problem of politically motivated violence by whites in the United States. But let's be clear: politically motivated violence in the United States is far more likely to be carried out by conservative whites, and we're talking about politically motivated violence here. So when do we talk about our white conservative domestic terrorist problem?

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:40 pm

motivated" to try and deflect the fact that blacks are responsible for the majority of violent crime in the US, despite being just 12% of the population. While the US cities with the highest rates of violent crime all have significant black populations (Oakland, Gary, Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis, NO etc.)

Refusing to acknowledge that doesn't even help blacks, let alone their victims.

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:54 pm

Your concern for black people is deeply touching.

Posted by JohnnyW on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:04 pm

in their community?

The victims of black violence are invariably other blacks.

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:39 pm

Invariably? You're right. No African-American has *ever* been killed by someone who is or another race. You have a real problem with making absolute statements, which are the refuge of people who can't and won't do research.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:02 pm

Why would a white guy like you try and tell them they are wrong to be concerned?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:15 pm

white-on-black crime.

An inconvenient truth, huh?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:25 pm

are mostly blacks, right? Same goes for most of the bankster set.

Posted by lillipublicans on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:39 pm

Relevance?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 5:08 pm

to white on black crime.

Bestemor.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 5:10 pm

Very relevant to your obsession, though.

Once again proving my point--to the sunlight deprived Internet troll, every news story either bolsters or destroys you.

 

 

 

Posted by JohnnyW on May. 23, 2013 @ 5:04 pm

blacks by whites in the United States (slavery, rape, torture, vigilantism, discrimination...), the level of black on white crime is miniscule.

If black Americans reacted to the historic violence perpetrated against them by whites like the US reacted to the crimes of 9/11, we would have seen a bloodbath. The bloodlust and vengeance of this country is unmatched. The response to between 3,000 and 4,000 murders has been to kill or enable the killing of over a million Muslims and we're not done yet.

Proud to be an American for at least I know I'm free. Free to kill, motherfucker.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 7:39 pm

So you're justifying violence by Blacks against Whites because of slavery and past discrimination? Got it. Well can you please explain rampant Black-on-Asian crime? If Asians reacted to the continuing violence perpetrated against them by Blacks we wouldn't have a bloodbath, we'd have genocide.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 9:10 pm

forgiving at their treatment by white people than Americans in general.

I'll try to keep my future points at your grade level.

A, B, C, D ....

Rich uncle is out for the night or did you sneak onto the computer after he passed out?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 9:18 pm

So that would make Asians saints because they are more forgiving of their treatment at the hands of Black people than Americans in general, right?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 11:40 pm

He never said that "no Black has ever been killed by someone who is of another race" and you know it. He said that in the overwhelming majority of Black homicides in this country, the murderer is Black.

Blacks comprise about 13% of the population of this country and yet are 50% of the homicide victims.

There are roughly 7,000 Black homicide victims per year and over 90% of the time the perpetrator is Black.

That's roughly the same rate of death for US soldiers in Vietnam. Except while Vietnam went on for about 8 years, this has been going on for the past 40. But no problem of Black-on-Black violence, right?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:45 pm

which means every.

You are still undefeated in all the debates, however. I look forward to you appointment to the Supreme Court.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 9:26 pm

Okay. In case you hadn't noticed "Guest" there are multiple people posting on here as "Guest". They are not all the same person believe it or not. And you're still avoiding the main point. Is there, or is there not, a violence problem within the Black community? And, despite his misuse of the word "invariably", do you agree with his point that whenever a Black male is killed in this country, a majority of the time his killer will be another Black male?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 11:46 pm

And do you agree that if a black male kills another black male, it is almost certainly not terrorism related? And do you agree that if a United States citizen commits a terrorist act in the United States, that person is, most of the time, a conservative white American?

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 24, 2013 @ 2:37 am

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Posted by seo Leighton Buzzard on Aug. 07, 2014 @ 6:37 pm

I guess we can count you among the people who don't know what "invariably" means. Such nice statistics. I guess those statistics absolutely mean we can't talk about *political* violence perpetrated by conservative white Americans. Remember,

"Sure there are the white supremicists but, even so, black criminals in the US commit far, far more violence than the white fascists and so I wouldn't try and go too far with that rhetoric."

That is what's known as a bullshit argument. The amount of black violence in the United States has *nothing* to do with a discussion of terrorism, while political violence committed by conservative white Americans does. But we'll just let Guest try to Mau-Mau this whole discussion by claiming racial profiling is a-okay, just not for conservative white Americans because black folks and brown folks commit more violence in total.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 24, 2013 @ 2:34 am

Self-serving? Dude, we're talking about *terrorism*, which, by definition, is politically motivated. I'm not the red-herring tosser blathering about African-Americans and violent crime.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:17 pm

can be racially correlated.

Whether you think killing someone for "dissing" you is better or worse than killing someone because of a political viewpoint is something I leave to those whose main hobby is splitting hairs.

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:34 pm

Oh, I see. You're not actually interested in our domestic terrorism problem and solving that. Please continue with your red herrings or strawmen or tar babies or whatever it is that seems to preoccupy you.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:54 pm

that I think we need to take note of the perps in the Boston and London incidents. Again, they were not Norwegian grandmothers.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:16 pm

Can you elaborate on this white political domestic terrorism?

Posted by Guest Dave on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:57 pm

I am going to humor you and pretend that you've just arrived on this planet and haven't been paying attention to anything that's happened in the United States for the last twenty years. But, to wit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_sho...
Tim McVeigh ring any bells? No? He blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City.
http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/the-law...

I could go on, but I think it's time for you to take off the training wheels and do your own research.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:28 pm

That's very helpful to those who wish to punish blacks for violent street crime or Arabs for terror incidents.

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:38 pm

Yes. Violence is a race issue. People of all races can be violent. Are you for real?

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:03 pm
Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:17 pm

The anti-abortion violence is horrible, no doubt about it. But there is such a thing as scale and perspective. You are talking about 36 episodes of anti-abortion violence since '93 compared to over 20,000 jihad attacks since 9-11-01.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 6:06 pm

" You are talking about 36 episodes of anti-abortion violence since '93 compared to over 20,000 jihad attacks since 9-11-01. "

You're not very bright are you? I am not talking about anti-abortion violence in the United States compared to jihad attacks. That's your formulation. Johnny was told he shouldn't go too far in talking about violence by American fascists because violence among black Americans is much more common, which is simply excuse making and putting your head in the sand about homegrown American terrorism. All I did was point out that if we're talking about politically motivated violence by Americans, it's disproportionately carried out by conservative white Americans and that violence among African-Americans is almost always apolitical and not relevant to a discussion of terrorism.

It's sad that I have to even explain the flawed arguments, faulty evidence, and vocabulary failures of Guest(s), but there it is. If you can't construct a coherent argument, no one should be expected to pay any attention to you.

Also, Scandinavian grandmothers.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 24, 2013 @ 3:06 am

it wasn't a norwegian grandmother it was some thirty - something norwegian dude that killed 85 children...for the record...

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 5:34 pm

terrorism in another country.

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 6:03 pm

Well said. Thank you.

Posted by Well said. Thank you. on May. 23, 2013 @ 9:05 pm

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/norwegian-mass-murderer-breivik-sentenced-to-21-years-1.460619

As far as El Al and Israel go, well...On the other hand, no matter how safe or how wonderful the flying experience on El Al, it is TINY airline by U.S. standards, with only 38 aircraft, 46 destinations, and fewer than two million passengers in 2008. As near as I can tell, Cairo is their only destination in a majority Muslim country. Delta, before the Northwest merger is included, reported 449 aircraft and 375 destinations.

Ben Gurion Airport is Israel’s primary (not only) international gateway. In 2008, Ben Gurion served 11.1 million international passengers and 470,000 domestic passengers, roughly comparable to the 10 million total served at Sacramento, the airport I use most often. Amsterdam served 47.4 million total, and Detroit served 35.1 million total in 2008.

Posted by JohnnyW on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:20 pm

scalable and, indeed, it may not be at the other extreme of air traffic i.e. the US.

The point was rather that it works.

And while, as you note, Norway has had the odd murderer, the topic here is terrorism and last time I checked, no Scandinavians have ever been involved, and certainly not any Scandinavian grandmothers.

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:38 pm

"And while, as you note, Norway has had the odd murderer, the topic here is terrorism and last time I checked, no Scandinavians have ever been involved, and certainly not any Scandinavian grandmothers. "

Look up Peter Mangs or Bjorn Soderberg and get back to me on Scandinavian terrorism.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:46 pm

But to use that to try and pretend that there are no correlations across race, religion, ethnicity and nationality is deeply flawed and unhelpful.

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:56 pm

What is deeply flawed and unhelpful are people who make absolute claims like "no Scandinavians have ever been involved" and claim that they've actually done some research as in "last time I checked". The only conclusion is that the writer's research skills are significantly flawed and therefore everything they say is suspect. If you can't be trusted to get even small things right....

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:19 pm

the US, the UK or Israel have been perpetrated by Scandinavian grandmothers?

Posted by anon on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:35 pm

But that doesn't mean we should use it. The situation of Israel and El Al is very different than our own - not to mention the legal framework. Israelis accept that a certain loss of privacy - in constant bag searches to go into most buildings as well as random checkpoints etc... are the price they have to pay for being, well, Israelis. We haven't accepted that nor should we. Most Americans would never tolerate the constant surveillance Israelis put up with.

Posted by Lucretia Snapples on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:52 pm

"last time I checked, no Scandinavians have ever been involved, and certainly not any Scandinavian grandmothers. ""

It logically follows that no Scandinavian grandmothers have ever been involved if no Scandinavians have ever been involved. However, as I showed you, Scandinavians *have* been involved in terrorism, a fact that you were completely ignorant of, despite your research. It really doesn't matter if any Scandinavian grandmothers have been involved: you're grasping at straws. Go live in fear.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 23, 2013 @ 3:59 pm

Scandinavian terror incidents outside of Scandinavia.

Good. You're making progress here.

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:18 pm

I see. Your tactic is to keep changing the terms of debate. First it was no Scandinavians have committed terrorist acts. Now it's suddenly no Scandinavian terror incidents outside of Scandinavia. You've lost. Give it a rest.

Posted by Citizen Charles Foster Kane on May. 24, 2013 @ 2:38 am

have any relevance to the comment before you? Are you insinuating that Muslims are more likely to attack Jews?

Posted by Lucretia Snapples on May. 23, 2013 @ 2:45 pm

Seriously , do you have any valid insight?

Posted by Guest on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:27 pm

That whatever the news story, partisan jackasses will try to "score victory points" rather than ever delving any deeper than "see, this proves I'm right".

And the fact that "black on white crime rates" has seeped into a discussion that's supposed to be about the real roots of international terrorism (which are almost always nationalist in nature and have zero to do with race or religion) only goes to prove the point.

 

Posted by JohnnyW on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:32 pm

What is the point of mentioning the fact that El Al doesn't fly to a lot of "majority Muslim countries" as a rationale for why it has been able to avoid terrorist attacks?

Posted by Lucretia Snapples on May. 23, 2013 @ 4:40 pm

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